Showing posts with label 5.56 x 45. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 5.56 x 45. Show all posts

Monday, April 4, 2011

Personal Critical Review of Firearms - Kel Tec SU 16 CA



Personal - There are several versions of this rifle, I purchased the rifle for my youngest boy, I had a previous version, but chose the CA incarnation because of the threaded heaver barrel, shorter length, and improved front sight (back aperture sight is crap). I like it... I am not a fan of .223 but the rifle is handy, capable of reasonable accuracy and is based more on the AK than the AR platforms. Very light weight, and it has a neat folding stock making it very small an easy to pack. I found I liked the folding stock that folds out into a traditional stock, it looks a bit queer but it feels good in the hand for shooting, very comfortable.

Function - Excellent reliable function, an earlier version also was excellent in reliability, this version has been 100% with every magazine I have tried, it likes both 20 and 30 round Thermold (LE marked) 20 and 30 round Tapco, and two old 30 round Adventureline magazines someone gave me years ago.

Design flaws - The front folding hand-guard will fold out into a "bipod" if you want to call that spindly insect like abomination a "bipod" I used it for a few magazines worth and never bothered again my first thought was "tits on a boar-hog" and that did not change after I gave it a chance, have not bothered to unfold it again except to clean under it.

Light weight also translates to lightly constructed, you would not want to hit someone with it like you could a Mosin-Nagant, but the construction is not THAT bad, that is as bad as some input I have seen from who think that every gun has to help fight you out of some muddy foxhole.

There is a trick to getting the bolt in and out, follow the directions it is not "user intuitive.” Take great care not to launch parts into low earth orbit (or into your body) in disassembly, spring loaded parts could be easy to loose. Rear sight aperture is crappy cheap and the safety is a funky shotgun-style cross bolt. The full stock of the CA model will not allow the rifle to fire folded, that could be a problem if you needed a quick "get to” while folded, but the weirdo version of the pistol grip folder is just too funky, when I ordered my "california" version the dealer also ordered one of the funky pistol grip versions for the shop - Blech! even he said he hated that version and liked the CA better.

Quality - Molded polymers - and you can tell there are some "corner cutting" parts here and there - you can tell this was intended as a light duty carbine. I would choose the SU16CA rifle over the Mini 14 (problems and all) any day...

Caliber/Ammunition - .223 small, inexpensive (well, as inexpensive as surplus or new center-fire is going to get nowadays), light recoil, accurate, not all that exciting but it is a carbine, what did you expect?

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Use - Accuracy is reasonable, better grouping when hot (or cold) than any Mini-14 I have ever seen but NOT on par with the AR15, about halfway from Mini-14 to AR, and less expensive than both. Uses standard AR15 magazines and has two little 10 rounders that press fit into the stock and can stay (well they are supposed to stay in, just don't hit it too hard when open) there when folded - as the Russians would say "is very nice, yes?” - of course, and inexpensive also.

Current production - Waiting at the Kel tec factory fresh off the molding machine, this entire series of rifle is one of their most popular products, and is not always in great supply.

I consider this rifle a secondary choice carbine or a nice light weight, light duty carbine for small users. The SU16 series is in a mid range price level and is less expensive than either the AR or Mini 14. Currently in production, using popular easy to find magazines, and small limited parts interchangeability with the AR make this an attractive choice. I use this rifle myself for hunting where a light carbine is required, but was intended for the smallest child, he loves it. (Update: I have acquired a second SU16CA and both are now regulated to the two women in the family. We use them for small game and varmint hunting quite regularly and both have received a solid diet of reloaded brass and steel cased ammo with no function problems.)

Reloading imported (boxer primed) steel .223 cases

I have seen posted both pro and con of reloading steel cases, but not enough info to make a good judgment, so I started picking up the Wolf .223 fired cases. I have also (far in the past) reloaded Berdan primed cases, I fount the experience "less than satisfying" for the time expended, Berdan primed cases CAN be reloaded but it requires more time. Steel cases are harder than brass and some rifles could have parts damaged by the harder steel cases (a possibility, but this author has not had that experience). I prefer to find my own answers based on experience or facts based on documentation. Far too much has been posted containing too much conjecture about how the steel is too hard for the dies but NO FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION. What we do know is hard on dies is abrasives on the cases or abrasive contamination in the dies (dirt) the dies are considerably harder steel than the Wolf casings. So I decided to experiment myself, I was willing to risk the sizing die just to document what happens for my own answers and to test the results. I know that most dies are hardened far above and beyond what any steel case and it’s material could damage, aluminum cases would be adding abrasives to the mix, but steel with lubrication should be well within the working range of the dies. Of course I was making a guess that the steel cases are not as hard as one would think (or as much as has been posted on the internet), I see no damage so far with the current dies I am using, I have been keeping an eye on measurements of the dies to see as I progress in this experiment. (Update, no change whatsoever) So far I have picked up Wolf .223 that is boxer primed every time I go to the range - I live in a desert area, so rust is not that big of a problem, some are pitted more than others and the worst examples are culled. I tumbled them using simple play sand to nock off the paint/polymer and to clean out any rust inside or outside, and remove any of the worst of the rust. I then vibrate them in walnut abrasive with paper towel strips and old fabric softener sheets and three teaspoons of mineral spirits, just to make sure the sand does not get in the dies. (Update, I have changed to a water wash and quick dry prior to sizing, the rust has not become a problem, but it will develop.) I then size with a mix of lanolin and castor oil (swage lube-anti rust), trim, and vibrate them again as above... They come out nice and silver shiny, I shoot them quickly so I don't bother waxing or painting the cases, a thin wipe with lube wax or even swage lube would prevent rust, but I don't bother. (Update, I have switched to vegetable cooking oil for sizing as it is easier to remove.) I was going to anneal the cases, but I decided not to, so that I could simulate less than optimum conditions (normal) along with a warning I recieved. I was warned that annealing Steel would be different than brass. It involves heating the steel to a known temperature and then keeping it at that temp for a set time. You then have to cool the steel in a controlled matter. If a user attempted to anneal steel like brass the result will be hardening of the steel and Increased brittleness. Here is what has happened so far... I am shooting them out of four rifles, a T C encore, a bolt action, an HK 630, and an AR 180 franken clone (more on that later). (Update, currently the two KelTec SU16 rifles are digesting the steel hand-loaded ammunition.) The HK rifles, with three shots in you can tell the fouling gases were passing the flutes. HK and steel, possibly not the best combination but that is not a big secret. The HK had a few slam fire problems with the .223 but that is also true of military 5.56 cases of brass. (Update, a switch in primers eliminated this problem and now unlike the Military brass cases, the steel cases work fine without any problems.) TC Encore - I honestly could not tell the difference from the Wolf and the military brass I often use, with the same loads it all shot in a similar way, I even did a blind mix and the groups did not show any significant change, there is more fouling around the case mouth. Sooty and black it indicates that the case is shrinking at the mouth when pressures drop, the bypass does not show "jets" of gas bypass. Bolt rifle, similar to the Encore, but tends to group to the left about .25 inch at 100 yards compared to the brass cases (the drift could easily have be environmental not the ammunition), no particular change in group size. (Update, change was environmental as this drift cannot be repeated, in other words it has not happened again.) AR 180 clone (the V18) fouling to the case neck, no jets, black and sooty, but it does this with brass cases, I note a light increase with the steel cases While all of the rifles showed similar issues, the AR180 clone is the hardest on cases (any case brass or steel), because I knew it was abusing the cases, I keep the best records on what was happening. First cycle of reloading, any cases that had pitting from rust at the case mouth split from edge to edge on the mouth at the pitted areas (of the pitted cases) one in five split- one reloading. Second reloading, more splits on pitted cases at about one out of three, the fresh cases that did not have any rust did not show signs of distress. Third reloading, more splits on pitted cases now at about half of the pitted cases, one pitted case ruptured at the mid point. Fresh cases start to show splits at the mouth one out of about dozen. Fourth reloading, most of any pitted cases are now gone, and the fresh cases start to split at the mouth at about one in each ten. I have not loaded further at this point... I found the rejects at just above what I get from military brass cases, for free "pick ups" the fresh fired cases are not bad for an abusive autoloader, the reloads are much more accurate than the original loadings of wolf and I can shoot Varget (my favored powder) with bullets of my choice. I have not broken any parts on the autoloader (extractor or ejector) but the work hardening of the cases is evident with the mouth splits. I think that while I am using a small sample it clearly points out that the steel cases DO NOT last as long and have peculiar properties when compared to brass cases and reloading. I certainly would not argue that for the purposes of reloading, clearly the brass casings are superior, even if it were a matter or a few statistical percentage points that would prove the issue, in this case it is clearly far more than just a few percentage points of improvement. While a good quality rifle can shoot inexpensive ammunition at least to mediocre levels a bad rifle will shoot even premium ammunition at lower than mediocre levels. Accuracy does not seem to be significantly influenced by the use of a steel case. While not as well documented as I would like, the experiment showed that while not as easy to work or as long lasting, the possible accuracy is similar if not on par with brass casings for general use loading. With all other items the same, quality bullets, primers, and powders and the same loads, steel cases showed no change in accuracy. This makes a point that the case, when construction sizes are within a specific tolerance range, is not the arbiter of accuracy as much as the charge of powder, bullet quality and suitability of the bullet size and powder charge to the particular rifle. I will continue to progress with this experiment if only to answer the question in a way that is satisfying. In some ways I feel some satisfaction in even reusing the cases even one time rather than regulation to the garbage or scrap dealer, in the same way I fee satisfaction in local recycling programs. Why are steel cases on the ground at the range and brass is not? Clearly two valid reasons, value of the scrap and ease of use while reloading. Berdan priming is an issue because most steel cases are produced with berdan priming, and boxer priming is much easier to size and remove the primer in one simple operation. There is the possibility of corrosive components used in steel cased surplus ammunition. Disinterest in the cases due to simply to reputation. I chose to reload the .223 Wolf because it was plentiful, made with non-corrosive components, and produced with a standard style Boxer primer. I guess that makes me more "green" as a hand-loader. The reloading of boxer primed steel cases took far less time and effort to reload than brass berdan cases would take. In that regard I was also noting that the reloading of the steel cases was showing no more "wear and tear" on the dies or the rifle used to fire them. Certainly there is no current shortage of brass casings, and outside of price they are a better choice. So outside of a desire to stop "seeing something go to trash" and the willingness to risk as set of inexpensive dies for an experiment, there was no reason outside of simply testing theory with application. I note no "wear and tear" on the dies nor any undue added difficulty in effort to form cases, prime, or trim in comparison to military brass. I consider this a successful experiment, and specific questions were directly answered with actual testing. If I feel to lazy to pick up a batch of reloaded steel cases for additional loadings, I can fee justified in allowing them to rust in positions knowing I used them once and that the reloaded versions fired with more accuracy and were of more consistent nature than the original Russian factory loading. I started reloading from the start because it was conservative in nature, and handloading will provide better control than factory offerings. The reloading hobby/habit is then justified yet again. Reloading is certainly not primarily to save money, because when counting labor, it never was less expensive. Most likely never will be, outside of obscure and rare calibers or loadings. I wanted to check, the negative comments on loading steel cases were all "I won't even try it" I was willing to risk my dies, I'm just not willing to tell someone "you can't do it" or "that would be bad" when there were no reliable sources for a factual response. It is clear from my current experiment now close to 4000 rounds of steel cased .223 wolf full length sized and ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGE IN THE THE DIES OR ANY WEAR that I can detect with my micrometer or calipers... I do use a very good lube I make myself with castor oil and lanolin (a swage lube) to make sure none of the cases get stuck, and I make sure the cases are VERY clean and no rough pitting before I size (but I do that with brass cases)... This testing holds that steel cases have little to no effect on the dies or their performance in comparison to brass cases. I'm not saying that they could or could not be harder on an extractor, or ejector on a rifle as that is outside of the testing I was conducting. Testing with real world supplies and actual use of product, I am not making a guess, I am actually using the product and keeping an eye on the results, I may not even use all of the cases, but I wanted to see and was willing to risk the dies. The testing showed, at least with Lee dies steel cases can be processed and there is no additional wear... With clean cases, well lubricated, and use of reasonable quality dies it not only works but is of little difference or consequence ON THE DIES and the physical effort required is only slightly elevated from the brass cases, far less effort than .308 brass full length sizing. I think the fear of this was only speculation based on comparison to the steel cases performance with extractors on auto-loading rifles.I will gladly note any damage if only for a warning to my fellow handloaders, but as it stands now I do not note any additional die wear or damage, while the steel cases are NOT better than brass for our use as hand-loaders they are clearly also NOT quite as bad as I have seen them made out to be either.

Personal Critical Review of Firearms - AR 180 Rifle




Personal - In an effort to fix the problems with the AR15/M16 the AR 180 type of rifle came about...

I like this series of rifles for the most part they prove far more reliable than the AR15 and much more accurate than the Mini 14 from Ruger.

Magazines are a big issue with every clone of this type of rifle they all like aluminum 20 rounders BEST, but will work with good quality aluminum magazines..

I have said before that I am not a fan of .223 but AR180 clone rifles are reliable, accurate and far superior in function and design than the AR15. This system uses an unusual multi part gas piston type operation rod. Not as light weight as the AR15 or the SU16 but far more reasonable for small people in weight than the full size rifles. Some versions have a folding stock and the folding versions when folded are shorter than a "shortie" AR 15. Ergonomics are on par with the AR 15 with a better ballance point for firing from various positions. If I had to go with a .223 this would be my "go to” rifle list.

There are many older and current production versions available, I will say a few things about the older versions not in production but will focus on the two current production clones, the ArmaLite AR180b and the Vulcan V18. The Vulcan V18 is a new rifle I bought "just to try it out", it like many others it is about to go to a new home. I would not buy a second from Vulcan, but the ArmaLite AR180b is in my view the BEST of all the AR180 clones or actual production rifles.

Function - Excellent reliable function, the older versions had to have a cut out on the AR mags or used "made for" mags - I hate cutting a good mag for this use both the V18 and AR180b use regular, standard, AR15 magazines without modification. On the Vulcan I have had FTF issues with the polymer magazines, 30 round and 20 round aluminum magazines were 100% as long as you did not push up on the magazine (causes the bolt to stop at the rear edge of the magazine). The ArmaLite rifle is a good as it gets with gas piston operation, just shy of the AK in this regard. The square bolt rides on two guide rods and has a spring return that keeps the firing pin back and the bolt head forward (less chance of twisting in movement, an issue that plagues the AR15).

Design flaws - Here is something that speaks well for the AR180 design - even Hesse/Vulcan could not "F" this design up... Oh they tried, the front gas block was tilted to the right about 6 to 8 deg. (fixable) the front hand-guards suck and the connection to the folding stock is "wiggly" (I used a hex wrench to try and tighten it, but it stayed "wiggly". The V18 has issues, but the ArmaLite company put together the Best of this design with new materials and make improvements, a top notch product. With the Vulcan V18 the flat top is so low that regular AR detachable sights will NOT work - hell you can go all the way out front and back and I was still three FEET low! No sights were included and the detachable were useless, I just attached a 2 power red dot scope...

Quality - ArmaLite was top notch, Vulcan, well let's just say that drunken Hutu natives would likely have better quality control, but like the AK you just have a hard time screwing this design up... I would choose even the V18 rifle over the Mini 14 ANY DAY.

Caliber/Ammunition - .223 is inexpensive ammunition, light in recoil, and accurate. With the AR180b even Wolf crap ammo just worked without issue, with the Vulcan almost a good as long as you did not push the magazine into the bolt face.

Use - Accuracy is about even with quality AR15 rifles, maybe lacking at most 5% in the group tightness. Easy to strip and clean (not that you need to that much) and both in current production are reliable and accurate.

Current production - ArmaLite has stopped production and the Hesse/Vulcan bunch has again changed names and who knows what they are up to, spend the extra and get one of the few ArmaLite versions.

I consider this rifle a secondary choice due to the cartridge and availability, for small folks this is nice and light weight they are not in current production but do pop up on gunbroker. They both use popular easy to find magazines (of good quality). On a side note, the Vulcan V18 was sold this weekend for a profit, with the money going into the kitty for a new rifle, avoid the Vulcan that company is actually worse in quality control than the angry beavers at Century Arms!